For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.. So you don't want to "blot them out", you want to "reconcile all" but again this is just utter disrespect to human beings and their free will, which in turn is a denial of the opportunity to love. You will forgive me that I will not go and read through all the parables but if I have immediately three springing to mind that teach a final, unchangeable judgement than I don't need to have dozens others agree with that or read anything into them. Wild animals fought over scraps of food along the edges of the heap. Yesterday Louis McBride raised the issue (HT: BibleX). The quotation begins in verse 22. When they fought, their teeth would make a gnashing sound. But that statement says nothing about God no longer being God after the ages. It was an interesting article and I am glad that you were not trying to disprove eternal punishment though at least one person wanted to think otherwise. About the same time, G. R. Beasley-Murray made a similar observation: The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the citys rubbish was burned in this valley,has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimhi made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source. 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But this doesn't give you the right to twist his words. Brimstone used to be added to fuel the incineration. (Actually it says "from one new moon to IT'S next", meaning the same new moon one year later)Time is clearly still in view in this context. About the other direction he didn't ask. After all, Samaria did not return either but found successors that, though unconneceted with the northern kingdom, called themselves Samaritans. This gate in the southern part of the wall lead to the Hinnom Valley. Voting for the Political Party of Infanticide in 2020 is Great Says JD Greear. It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught. And can we actualle be cartain about the identity of Sodom and her daughters? Because the church is not a "club for solving real and apparent biblical contradictions", it is not a "bible study club". There was not a trash pile perpetually burning. He remarked, Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called Gehenna.. See Joachim Jeremias Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, p. 44. Students may use the material on this site for school projects without permission. In Hebrew, the Valley of Hinnom was 'Ge Hinnom' which transliterated into Greek became 'Gehenna.' Because of its history of infant sacrifice and idol worship, the area was associated with desecration, abominable fires . No council ever decreed whether someone was a "Christian". Though a duration of time is the most common use of the word, just as with most any word, there can be different meanings depending on the context. Gehenna, also called Gehinnom, abode of the damned in the afterlife in Jewish and Christian eschatology (the doctrine of last things). It doesn't matter what we think! I'm sure there will come forth a brilliant solution to this apparent contradiction that will make it disappear. (v.23), "Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies?". Out of six major "seminaries" ". Certainly they produced less waste than a modern city. So your attitude "If the Lord had wanted to communicate this" is not only arrogant towards him (he chose his words as he saw fit, not you) but also false: he did clearly communicate this. It is the birthplace of the yugoloths, which dwell here in great numbers. Mk. Where are you getting this? The Gray Waste (more fully, the Gray Wastes of Hades; also, Hades, The Three Glooms, Hope's Loss or The Nadir) is a strongly neutral evil aligned plane of existence. If ALL will be made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be viewed in light of that fact. The "kingdom" of the Son will one day be turned over to the Father, and one of the epistles describes Jesus ruling it UNTIL all His enemies are put under His feet, so the parables about the kingdom and the wedding feast do not have to be describing the final state of "the Kingdom". And it is obviously contradicting the parable to consider what could happen after the feast for if the kingdom is like that feast and there would be an afterwards, it would no longer be eternal. The punishment is given with the goal of improving the one punished. This message has a warning for everyone today, but especially Christian leaders. Not necessarily TO those in the fire, possibly TO OTHERS ABOUT THOSE in the fire if they are already in it, they don't need examples. The verses are clearly parallel, so that eternal MUST mean the same for the blessed and the cursed. Are you serious? He wrote: In these gardens, lying partly within the mouth of Hinnom and partly in the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and irrigated by the waters of Siloam, Jerome assigns the place of Tophet; where the Jews practised the horrid rites of Baal and Moloch, and burned their sons and their daughters in the fire. It was probably in allusion to this detested and abominable fire, that the later Jews applied the name of this valley (Gehenna), to denote the place of future punishment or the fires of hell. Still, because it seems like a reasonable explanation for the origin of the Hinnom Valley as "hell," commentators and preachers have accepted it. Bell says, Gehenna, in Jesus's day, was the city dump People tossed their garbage and waste into this valley. must be explained away if you want to cling to a doctrine of eternal torture. garbage heap, junk heap, junk pile, refuse heap . He is not being literal here, He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man. Why would anyone, especially people who are redeemed and survive the coming of the Lord to judge all flesh (v.16) want to go out to look at corpses full of worms and burning? You are confusing the matters under discussion at the time whith what others wrote at other times. It is also very instructive to study the writings of the early church fathers and church history to see how prevalent a belief universal salvation was, and then compare the conditions that surrounded the second council at Constantinople where they decided that a confession of belief in an eternal hell was one of the conditions for being accepted into "the church". There is no corresponding situation for punishment having it's opposite destroyed thus allowing it to continue outside of time. By Jesus' time, the Valley of Hinnom was a full fledged garbage dump with its wretched rotting aromas, howls of scavenging wild animals, and smoldering and perpetual fires. Neovia group's Profile, Revenue and Employees. Perhaps waste products from the lambs were thrown there or pethaps some lambs were slain outside the city walls, but I had never heard this. If that seems unfair in your eyes, so be it . The wonderful promise that is "You lot will experience everlasting happiness while the rest of the world suffers unimaginable torment for eternity"? I don't believe that and I don't believe the last commenter does either. The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna - Dr. Michael Heiser The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna Posted by DrHeiser | Apr 7, 2011 | AAG, Afterlife / Sheol / Hades, Ancient Sites & Archaeology, NakedBible, New Testament | That's the title of this worthwhile post from Todd Bolen. I am disturbed by the anger and name-calling of the resident I am sure he will give the usual excuses. Located at the midpoint of the Lower Planes, it was a plane of evil balanced between Law and Chaos. Hell fire, Gehenna the garbage dump with its constantly burning fire. God is not a torturer. Same with "aionian life". You brought up a very good point. Gender matters: women and religion, 1960-2000, Barbara Brown Zikmund. Everything! I also don't think we will be taking field trips out to look at burning and worm eaten bodies in eternity. There are a lot of things we need to be saved from at this point, but there will come a point when there will be nothing we need to be saved from. He got into trouble with a lot of people over many things, but one area of his teaching was never assailed by any church council and that was his teaching on universal salvation.". Gehenna In Hebrew Scriptures After the Baylonian exile (6 th cent BCE) A garbage dump in a deep narrow valley outside the wall of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse. What the text clearly says is that Sodom serves as an example linked to those suffering in eternal fire. Thats the earliest reference we have to it- a Rabbi writing in the middle ages from Europe, not Israel, some 1100 years after Jesus was born. God is much more forgiving than that. The common view today is that Gehenna was the garbage dump of Jerusalem. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. It smoldered there beneath the surface, incinerating the rotting, smelly garbage. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. Outline of Biblical Usage [?] Punishment of this type is eternal. Gender and justice in the worshipping communities of the Christian Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield Odor. I confused the council of Nicea with the Nicene Creed that came out of the council at Constantinople later on. But when the burning occured in such a valley, it left "dead bodies" for which the worms feasted on after the fire has destroyed them. The references to fire in Is 31.9 and Is 33.14 envisioned Yahweh's power as bringing vengeance on Israel's oppressors (Is 33.10 - 12) rather than a fire . There were some that believed in such things but they all went into trouble with it. Even if I couldn't convince you, I am glad that you got something out of it. 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